With all the new complexes (holiday camps) recently built or under construction in Akbuk, complaints are starting to emerge from new owners about out outsiders using their facilities.
Here is the problem - A new complex is built, naturally owners of individual properties want facilities, bar, restaurant, pool etc. So all is built, but who will run the restaurant/bar? Will they make a profit? The answer is unless there are dozens of people buying food and drinks every day they will not and when the winter comes and owners have deserted the place, what about the patron and his/her family? they still have to eat & pay their bills plus pay the rent & taxes for the business. So without bums on seats the restaurant/bar is going to fold. If not enough owners spend money there how can they increase their income to survive, should they open it up to the general public?
The Memsahib (Marie) and I were recently enjoying a few beers in such an establishment when a British couple arrived, she was moaning & bitching about outsiders using the facilities on site, the phrase she used was "freeloaders". So were we freeloading or helping to support the facilities on their site by spending money? If we spend money we expect to be able to use the pool or we will take our business elsewhere.
But wait ..... "What about the £500 a year I am paying to the site management", I hear you say, "when we signed up for this place they promised us these facilities, no one said outsiders could use them".
What do you think? - Have your say, click the "comments" link and give your opinion. This blog can be read on our website where we have 1,000 visitor a week, your comments could influence site owners.
Tuesday, August 4, 2009
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We are owners of a beautiful apartment on a fantastic development which also has a restaurant and bar open to the public. Whilst we have absolutely no objection to non residents using the restaurant/bar we do object to people wondering into the complex using the sunbeds, umbrellas and pool without so much as buying a drink. Afterall we do pay a high maintenance charge (considerably more than £500) for these facilities so why should non residents get the benefit for free. If that's the case then we are quite happy to buy a few drinks each day to enable free use of the facilities and forget about paying the maintenance.
ReplyDeleteI have had to reset the comments for this post due to one joker in Akbuk making several malicious postings under “Anonymous” (IP address logged), my apologies to the other genuine anonymous posters, I hope you will post again.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with the comments made by anonymous dated the 6th aug 2009. If joe public can get away with freeloading why cant the residents
ReplyDeleteWe own a lovely apartment on (in my view) one of the best sites in Akbuk. My partner and I chose this complex because of its peace, tranquility and exclusivity. The cafe bar on the site was opened a year or so after our purchase, and we are not happy at all about it being open to non residents. We pay a substantial amount for maintenance, and so feel that this should entitle us to certain privileges. The fact that people can now walk onto the complex, use the pools and sunbeds etc makes a nonsense of this. I sympathise with the people running the bar, but if they really need to open it to the public in order to make a living, then as far as I'm concerned, the cafe is something I would rather do without, in order to protect the privacy and lifestyle we bought into 18 months ago
ReplyDeleteVery interesting comments so far, but why not name the complexes you are referring to, how will the management of a complexe know how owners feel if their site is not named?
ReplyDeletePlease folks don't all post as "Anonymous" it will get very confusing and also why would site managements take notice of anonymous comments? The option is there to put your name or alias.
Rob you are fully aware that the complex in question is Summer Breeze. The reason for staying anonymous is 2 fold. 1.I dont believe that the management of the bar are in a position at present or would be allowed to deal with this professionally.2.There are some very nice non-residents who have used the complex and i would prefare to discuss my long term concerns for the site with them face to face.To date both Oracle (the developer)and the management of the bar have not taken the concerns of the residents seriously enough.Both parties have recieved various communications from concerned residents & have decided to bury their heads in the sand.This is not a healthy situation for any party as bad publicity is not good for any business. The opening of the bar has not been communicated to the residents directly. To some upon arrival the bar & it being used by outsiders,comes as a shock.If i may pose the question to you as a resident in Akbuk how would you feel if joe public all of a sudden had access to wonder around your property with out any prior consulation with you or challenge from security personal on site?Can you honestly say that this would not bother you?
ReplyDeleteTo anonymous above. Why would I assume comments made on here relate to Summer Breeze? I have a feeling some or perhaps even all of them relate to Mandalya Gardens, comment 1 for example, but I respect you for naming the complex you are referring to.
ReplyDeleteMy point about signing as anonymous is it will get confusing, people who wish to refer to your post for example would have to refer to you as anonymous…… err what anonymous? When? Now if you had signed it Blackpool Bill or something …. see my point?
The question you asked to me as a resident of Akbuk is a good one, you have a point, maybe that question would be better directed to your site owner, he has the power to change things, I have a suspicion he and your bar management will read these comments in due course, in fact I can ensure that if it what commentators want.
I also agree with the comments made by "anonymous"
ReplyDeleteIt cannot be right for "joe public" just to come of the street and enjoy "whats been paid for" by the owners/investors and turn what is suppose to be a private complex into some public like hotel.
Mandalya as been mentioned by you Rob and they are the ones i"m talking about,Its not much if a owner
can"t get on a sunbed because they are taken by none owners or by people who have not contributed in anyway. I think maybe the management are stacking up problems for them selves if this is allowed to continue. johnnyboy
OK Rob point taken, i will use the name Blackpool Bill.The question that i directed to you, has been asked of the site owner but as i already explained in my last note they are sticking their heads in the sand. Hopefully if they read the comments on your web site they will take the issue more seriously as this is broadcast to a wider audience. As johnnyboy rightly says management / developer are only stacking up problems for themselves. Investors at present are thin on the ground and i know of at least one potential buyer who has been put off by the uncertainty of tranquility & exclusivity offered by the site.
ReplyDeleteI have to say that the MANDALYA sit was fantastic. I was staying at a private apartment owned by family. I have two young children one of which invariably wants to sleep in the mid morning heat, but also be protected from the tremendous heat that love. However, with the influx of 'holiday makers' renting out apartments booked at the last minute on teletext, which i was told about from many visitors, there was always the risk that you will get, shall we say, 'the wrong type of people', ie, the ones that just want to come and get drunk, drink round the pool and listen to loud music and not actualy care or respect the site that many private owners are having to pay for. Whilst i was there, damage was caused to the childrens play area..who pays for that..not the 'visitors', no, the 'owners'. As for gettin a sunbed, i have never before had to go out in the early hours to 'secure' a sun bed just so that my young son could have protection from the sun, but i saw people putting out towels at 0700 up to 0800 and quite frankly had i not had to join them, which goes against the grain, i would not have had a bed and would have had to walk to the beach...and this surely is not right..who knows!!There should be pool rules...no sun bed saving with towels..many other complexes that i have been to in the past dont allow it..its unfair.Some of the 'reserved' beds were then not occupied until late afternoon when they eventually got out of bed after recovering from the effects of the masses of alcohol no doubt. I feel for those people who are paying a premium for the maintenance and as such there should be a degree of exlusivity!
ReplyDeleteGary you write an excellent post. So in your case it was not the odd person or two visiting the bar/restaurant from outside but people actually staying at the complex that was the biggest problem.
ReplyDeleteA couple of phrases stand out here, Gary “there should be a degree of exclusivity!” and Blackpool Bill “tranquillity & exclusivity”. As Gary points out, owners will behave responsibly and respect the communal areas but paying guests may not, surely the only way to have exclusivity would be to not allow outsiders in to the bar/restaurant AND to not allow owners to rent out their properties. Before you all jump down my throat, that was a question not an opinion.
After reading Gary's comment about Mandalya I was utterly dismayed that the children's play area was damaged after only opening in May. As an owner and paying a large maintenance fee I would not expect to pay for damage caused by irresponsible holidaymakers renting out owners'apartment. I agree with the comments about sunbeds. Beds should not be reserved if you do not intend to use them until later in the day. Signs should be put up to stop people doing this, or take your own action and put the towels aside if no-one using the bed.
ReplyDeleteFinally, I do not see why outsiders should use the site's pool when it was built for owners and people renting out. Local people have been seen at Mandalya using the pool where they had no intention of buying a meal or drink. Why should owners pay for the maintenance for outsiders to use facilities for free. The bar and restaurant is open to everyone which is fine as it gives the site additional income but not the pool.
Sorry this is anonymous but feel it is best at this stage.
This is a tricky one. My instinct is to say that, on balance, it is better to have these facilities open to non owners. It is unlikely that site bars and restaurants will be able to survive commercially without the additional income from non resident users. So the option would be either for owners to subsidise these facilities through higher maintenance charges or higher drinks and menu prices.
ReplyDeleteI have a property on the Yasmin Gardens complex nd I am delighted that we have a new bar and restaurant this season, not just for the few times when I'll be there but also so that friends and family who also come out have the best time possible. After all that is why we bought it. Also the complex is served by a number of pools and owners tend to have their own loungers so perhaps the issue will not arise. Early days I know but, as I said on balance I believe it to be the best way to ensure the site has excellent sustainable facilites.
I have been to the Mandalya complex and can vouch for the excellent facilities. The restaurant is first class and the manager running it is working very hard to promote the facility.
For those who have bought to live there I understand how they may find it frustrating but perhaps thats the result of living in a holiday complex - people go on holiday there and want to have a good time.
So in conclusion my sympthies to those who are unhappy but the alternatives are not sustainable.
Using the bar facilities is not really the issue. The main issue is the pool facilities being used for free by outsiders.People need to take notice that Summer Breeze is not a timeshare arrangement.The bar area is leased while the pool mainteance is payed for by the residents.Will having a bar reduce my mainteance fee next year? I for one am aggrieved by this practice as others are living on the back of my
ReplyDeletehard earned cash. If a fee for membership for non residents was put in place and enforced & as long as this was used to subsidize the residents mainteance fee then i would feel less aggrieved.
We have an apartment on Mandalya apartments - just a small complex but we think one of the best. We too have had people from another complex - Mandalya Gardens coming in to use the pool, because their's was unusable for a period -something we do not agree on. We brought our apartment for peace and quiet and a chance to get away from stress. This has caused bad feeling between some Mandalya Apartment owners and people who have interests in both complexes. This is a very sad situation considering we brought at Mandalya Apartments to escape the stress prevalent in England at the moment.
ReplyDeleteI wanted to get some facts, so I asked at Summer Breeze what their policy is towards outsiders using the restaurant/bar and pool.
ReplyDeleteI was told that very few outsiders use the facilities at this time and only by permission of the bar proprietor, those that do must spend a minimum amount at the bar to use the pool but only the smaller lower pool, the main upper pool is strictly reserved for residents.
I was also told that a lot of residents are expected in Sept and if they use the sites facilities the gates may be closed to others thereby ensuring residents desires take precedence.
I was told that as more properties are sold the current policy may change.
My visit was at 1.30pm in the middle of August (prime season, prime time), there were 2 people using the upper pool, 2 people using the lower pool, 1 person on a sun lounger by the lower pool and 4 people sitting outside the bar, I saw one or two soft drinks, no food. It seemed to me that if this is the norm, outsiders or not, that restaurant/bar ain’t gonna survive!
Quote from Blackpool Bill (above)
ReplyDelete"People need to take notice that Summer Breeze is not a timeshare arrangement."
Copied from Oracles website
First Step is available as quarter share ownership, allowing a group of up to 4 unconnected or connected friends or family buyers to enjoy the benefits of owning a home abroad at just a proportion of the full costs.
Quarter share ownership is available on apartments at our Summer Breeze Apartments and villas Sunny Bay Villas in Akbuk and 4-5 Bedroom private built villas. Aquamarine Apartments and off plan Aquavista Holiday Village are available on First Step Quarter share ownership. Owners can enjoy up to 3 months occupancy a year on the First Step system and only pay a proportion of the total annual management, maintenance and administration costs.
Sounds strangely like timeshare to me!
hi akbuk rob,so much for the peace and quiet at summerbreeze,when we bought our apartment oracle did not mention that the pools and bar would be open to the public??they also forgot to mention that summerbreeze was going to be used as wedding venue??so much for the security at summerbreeze,we watched outsiders climbing over the wall to go and use the pool,we would love to know what we are paying our maintence for???we owners are not happy bunnies.best regards.summerbreeze owners from norn iron
ReplyDeleteWow! There is some deep feeling here. However, I believe it is not the fault of the general public who, under controlled circumstances (ie using a paid-for annual 'permit to enter', which can be revoked), could be a benefit to a site. It is the developer(s) who have brought about this concept of 1/4-ownership, retaining the 3/4 majority share (and, hence, control) which they use to let out those properties on a commercial basis to the detriment of the 'full- and 1/4-owners'. It appears the current owners of property on such sites have been duped by development companies (whom we took a dislike to when we were buying back in 2005), subsidising them in their commercial venture to have a holiday resort-cum-complex built and then traded on Teletext. I would suggest all unhappy owners, both 'full' and 'part', check their purchase contracts, sales literature and recall their sales conversations and see if they have a case to bring a 'class action' against the developer(s) for breach of contract, stopping this public sale of 'holiday time' in part-owned property and encourage the sale of the other three 1/4 shares as stated above. Unhappy owners should not keep quiet, but need to unite, rise up and let the developers know how they feel; in the UK or Turkish courts, if necessary.
ReplyDeleteThank God we own on a wholly-owned private site and the only problem we have is Turkish kids using the pool when no-one is looking.
i have not stayed in Turkey yet but just booked up for june2010.
ReplyDeleteI have for the last 4 years been a member of club la costa and stayed in they resorts or other world resorts{like mexico}.I must say i never really been botherd my freeloaders and would be hard to even say i notice them.
But i do think the people who owned them {bars ect} should have the last say as its there livlyhood.
May be the answer would be fully inclusive no freeloaders resorts.BUT would you get buyers to finace it ,i dont think so.
Ijust carry on enjoying my club la costa .
The main reason i writing here was to say Rob great site thanxs.{sorry 4 any bad english}
I am also a owner of a flat in Mandalya Gardens. I don't have any problem with people coming to the site and expending their money in the Restaurant as soon as they actually expending money and not just using the pool. I agree with Gary in what he said about the fact that there should be some rules and people sholdn't be aloud to leave their towel in a sun bed all day long unless they are actually using the pool. That is not done only by outsiders. It is done mainly by owners and rentals. About the drunkers by the pool why I am not surprised? Being that most holidaymakers are british and unfortunalely we are well known all over the world for not knowing how to drink. And when to drink
ReplyDeletesummer breeze don't have a pool bar up and running anymore. There has been talk of the bar opening, but when that will be who can say.
ReplyDelete